Comments on Diary of a Mad Editor: Another shameless plea

Another person agreeing with Suze. (Well said girl...

2008-02-23T09:20:00.000-08:00

Another person agreeing with Suze. (Well said girl!) I especially related to this part of her comment-

- If "I believe in God" is not "secular," neither is "I do not believe in God." If we're talking about belief in God, we're not talking secularism.

(This coming from an agnostic with atheistic leanings.)

I have to completely agree with Suze. Athiests do...

2008-02-10T07:13:00.000-08:00

I have to completely agree with Suze. Athiests don't offend me, but neither do Christians. However, I am not a Christian or an Athiest. Your magazine is a wonderful one because it works for EVERYONE. I appreciate that. If you're going to turn away Christian advertisers, I would suggest turning away athiest ads as well.

I agree with everyone else that it is your choice to make. Sorry:).

As I was reading all this, I was aware of what I w...

2008-02-07T05:42:00.000-08:00

As I was reading all this, I was aware of what I wanted to say. But Suze said it much better than I ever could.

Atheism is not religion but it is about religion. "Secular" means neither. Just don't go there.

Honestly, I have known many people who consider th...

2008-01-27T17:07:00.000-08:00

Honestly, I have known many people who consider themselves Atheist and they all refer to it as their "religion." I would not, personally, accept the advertising from any religious or anti-religious groups in a Secular Magazine. I do know what you are going through, I have a secular group in a decidedly Christian state; it is not easy. You wish to not offend anyone, but no matter how we do things, there will be misconceptions and hurt feelings.

A couple self-proclaimed former members of my group were always deeply offended at the slightest mention of G-d; had fits when an event posted happened to be at a church, etc. The door swings both ways.

Ultimately, it is YOUR decision, and hopefully your readers will remain supportive. I am here for the long-haul!

Best wishes to you.

I'm late to the party, but my $.02 (and worth so m...

2008-01-25T06:22:00.000-08:00

I'm late to the party, but my $.02 (and worth so much less!) is that an athetist board may spend as much time basing spiritual/religious people as a religious board would spend bashing non-spiritual/athethist people.
Let's have a vote for tolerance and just not give anyone the forum to speak harshly and critically of others. Perhaps a listing as a resource in a directory format would be better (as some have mentioned).
For what it is worth, I am a spiritual SECULAR homeschooler. I love the magazine as is - I get my religious needs met elsewhere and like it that way!

I'd think if you truely want the magazine to be la...

2008-01-23T21:10:00.000-08:00

I'd think if you truely want the magazine to be lacking of materials of religious or anti-religious nature then youd have to turn it away.
But what truely matters is... this is YOUR magazine if youa re confortable with it go for it.. If not then polietly say "Thanks but no thanks!"

just my meager .02$

Ok, I found the wish list link, so you can ignore ...

2008-01-22T19:13:00.000-08:00

Ok, I found the wish list link, so you can ignore that part of my comment. I'm sorry I hadn't done my proper research first! (wink & grin)

I found your site from a recent posting elsewhere ...

2008-01-22T19:05:00.000-08:00

I found your site from a recent posting elsewhere of the infamous wish list. (grin)

By the way, do you have it posted somewhere so that I could send a link to it to my HS Yahoo group? I looked through the past blog posts but didn't find it although there were numerous references to it, and I didn't want to pass it along without giving you the credit you deserve.

FWIW on the atheist discussion board ad, I would suggest you do a quick check of the discussions in question. If the primary reason for the board is to discuss atheism, well, that would seem to me to fall under the realm of "religious" since atheism is usually defined as the non-belief in God. God is inherently religious, so something that discussed belief/non-belief in that subject seems to be inherently a discussion of religion. Am I making sense?

At any rate, I think it's wonderful that you've set up a secular magazine for people who homeschool. That portion of the homeschooling community is growing (perhaps faster than the non-secular portion) and deserves excellent writing and resources for their perspective.

Just a word from the "inside" so to speak. I'm a ...

2008-01-22T13:06:00.000-08:00

Just a word from the "inside" so to speak. I'm a Christian. I don't use the speech that some Christians feel they need to use all the live long day like, "Bless you" "In His Service" "In His Name" blah blah...

I just don't talk like that and my daily conversations do not revolve around my belief in Christ.

I like the reports you write and the way you write them because they are "normal" speech rather than all mushy with religious inferences.

That being said, using the word Secular in the title does turn away most Christians because that word is used over and over again in their religious training to mean "not of God" or even "Against God" "Worldly" "Unsacred"

Honestly, and I know you don't know me or care what I think but, truth be told, you would get a lot more subscribers if you were to just name it Homeschool Magazine, rather than to use the word Secular. You could just deny any ads that are for or against religion.

The word really does spark a red flag for anybody who has ever gone to Sunday School. It's synonymous with Pagan or Atheist ie: "against everything I believe in" In the minds of most believers.

General Homeschooling Mag.
Knowledgable Homeschooling Mag.
Habitual Homeschooling Mag.
Card Carrying Homeschooling Mag.
Unconventional Homeschooling Mag.
Exclusive Homeschooling Mag.
Mainstream Homeschooling Mag.

You know...there are so many other words that aren't religious, but aren't sending up red flags either.

Just a thought.

Allow me to second Suze's motion. Please just don...

2008-01-22T05:23:00.000-08:00

Allow me to second Suze's motion. Please just don't go there.

As my agnostic spouse says ... it takes a whole lot more faith to say "there is no God" than it takes to say "there is a God." Consider Pascal's wager.

I subbed to Secular Homeschooling to escape from other people's ideas about both ends of that spectrum. You're very sensitive about not inflicting one of those philosophies upon us. So please don't inflict the other upon us now!

Here's how my thinking shakes out:

- One of...

2008-01-20T16:52:00.000-08:00

Here's how my thinking shakes out:

- One of the two key underlying themes of your magazine is secularism, meaning "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations."

- Atheism exists solely in the context of the question of the existence of a deity. It is, by definition, not indifferent to religion; rather, it revolves around a religious consideration, apart from which context it doesn't exist.

- If "I believe in God" is not "secular," neither is "I do not believe in God." If we're talking about belief in God, we're not talking secularism.

- Atheism is not, to my way of thinking, a religion, but just because it isn't a religion doesn't make it any less about religion.

- For an entity to be secular, it can't just exclude the frankly religious, it must also exclude that which exists to question or challenge or refute the religious.

In short, the name "Secular Homeschooling Magazine" implies not going there. Atheism goes there.

What would worry me is that your magazine (which I...

2008-01-20T15:56:00.000-08:00

What would worry me is that your magazine (which I love btw) is so new that putting an advert for an atheist board in this early may make people that have not read the first issue but hear about the second and only look at that one think that is the slant you are taking. A lot of people are simply confused by the term "secular" and draw a line automatically with a lack of religion altogether. I'd worry about that line being drawn straight to the "atheist ad" as I'm sure it will be called when bashers circulate word of it.

Then again, like many have said this is your baby. You have to decide for yourself which way is best to lead her. Good luck whatever you decide and I will be getting the next issue either way.

First, the definition of Religion = the body of pe...

2008-01-20T00:48:00.000-08:00

First, the definition of Religion = the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices.... this includes athiesm (and in my book, science fits in there as well). We often forget that the word religion does not mean christian, judaism, muslim, etc. It means any beliefs and practices... and athiests do adhere to a particular set of beliefs.

I'm not ahiest, and I'm not christian... I happn to be pagan, very spiritual, very religious. My homeschooling, however, has nothing to do with my spiritual beliefs... although I do look for other pagan homeschoolers to discuss things with. I certainly wouldn't expect to see any of their sites advertised in SHM.

Personally, I feel that any ads should be completely secular, and I don't think that atheism is secular. That being said, this is your magazine, and you have final word. Their ad being in your magazine would NOT keep me from reading it, or recomending it to others!

There are few good resources for Atheist homeschoo...

2008-01-19T20:40:00.000-08:00

There are few good resources for Atheist homeschoolers and a magazine called Secular Homeschooling would look to be the best place to find them. You would be doing a disservice to your readers if you are constantly worried that what you publish or advertise would offend religious readers, who have numerous magazine in which to find religious materials. Would you turn down a site based on Evolution because it doesn't give equal time to Creationism?

I think you should visit the site, read some of the blogs and determine if it is blatently anti-religious or more in line with the discussions we often have at the Secular Homeschooling yahoo group (which usually are great discussions that don't offend). And of course, see if the site has anything of value for homeschoolers.

It's your magazine and you have to make the best dicision for you, but don't turn it down just because someone might be offended by the name. Look into it first. :)

Just my 2 cents. :)

Have you looked at the website in question? Is it ...

2008-01-19T07:36:00.000-08:00

Have you looked at the website in question? Is it a good resource? or, is it a rant-fest and/or anti-religion? Personally, I'd love to know the URL of the site! :)

What I like to do in these situations is ask his Noodliness (The Flying Spaghetti Monster) for guidance. I find that if I put on my pirate eye patch, and pray to Him, the answer often just comes to me.

Atheism, by definition is a lack of religion; and a label that I personally don't like. I much prefer Humanist or something like that. A negative word to describe the absence of belief in the supernatural has never quite sat well with me for some reason.

I would turn this ad away if faced with this decis...

2008-01-19T06:15:00.000-08:00

I would turn this ad away if faced with this decision. While not an athiest, I read some athiest blogs, etc and frequently discussions turn to religion and things can get quite heated.
I would agree that an athiest forum might be considered a good fit for a resource list, it could run afoul of you no anti-religion clause.

P.S. For the record: I'm not a very spiritual pers...

2008-01-18T20:10:00.000-08:00

P.S. For the record: I'm not a very spiritual person, but I wouldn't call myself an atheist either. I guess I'm mostly just secular. ;-)

I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see an ad for...

2008-01-18T20:07:00.000-08:00

I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see an ad for an atheist discussion site in a magazine with "secular" in the title. Secular doesn't have to mean "atheist," but all atheists are, by definition, secular, as Lill demonstrated, so it should not be altogether unexpected. Atheism is not a religion. It is not a belief in a god(dess); it is the lack of belief in a god(dess). That's two very different things.

I'd find it hard to believe that anyone reading your magazine would be offended by such an ad. But what do I know? Ads for anything rarely bother me unless they're gramatically incorrect, aesthetically offensive, or morally offensive. On its face, the ad in question is not necessarily any of those. >shrug<

Assuming the ad is not trying to convert people to atheism, then I say put it in. You won't hurt my feelings if you leave it out, however.

Your mag, your rules! But I would say that you may want to start making some actual rules for yourself, just so you don't have to bring it to a vote every time you get another ad offer. Just a thought...

You've set quite a mission for yourself. As others...

2008-01-18T12:17:00.000-08:00

You've set quite a mission for yourself. As others have said, I believe you need to trust your intuition and your instincts. Because atheism concerns a choice made regarding religion, I would agree that it is better to leave it out. Unfortunately, you are caught between two extreme groups that love to rub each other the wrong way. And it looks like there are some who have already decided what they think your choice is.

Bottom line: You can't please all of the people of the time. This is your baby. Dress it up anyway you like! If it is informative and useful, people will read it.
Peace and Laughter!

most importantly, it is your magazine, but if you ...

2008-01-18T11:55:00.000-08:00

most importantly, it is your magazine, but if you are looking for opinions...

i think atheism is still a position about belief & to strictly follow the concept of "secular" it doesn't fit. "secular" is the most fitting we atheists can try to find out in the mixed culture of our world, but it is definitely not the same thing.

i hope that helps!

My honest, heartfelt answer to this, and I may be ...

2008-01-18T11:19:00.000-08:00

My honest, heartfelt answer to this, and I may be wrong, is to leave this out. While atheism is not a religion it is a belief in the existence of a god(dess)( if this makes sense) and therefore does not belong in a Secular magazine.

As has been said many times, atheism is a religion...

2008-01-18T10:18:00.000-08:00

As has been said many times, atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color.

I would love to see more ads for specifically non-religious resources in SHM. Useful as well as welcome in this godless household.

What Bob said is the bottom line, Deborah. It's yo...

2008-01-18T06:00:00.000-08:00

What Bob said is the bottom line, Deborah. It's your magazine.

My input for what it's worth:
As an atheist, I resent it when people tell me that atheism is my religion. How stupid is that? It's a lack of religion.A - from the Latin for "without". theism - belief in a god.

If you don't run the ad, how about a section in your magazine for secular homeschooling resources? I think an atheist discussion board would certainly fit into that category. After all, religious homeschoolers have discussion boards for support and I'm sure they count them as resources.

Shine On,
Lill

I do not see Atheism as a "religion",
I also do...

2008-01-18T05:52:00.000-08:00

I do not see Atheism as a "religion",
I also do not feel Atheism is against religion,however, many do.You will have to trust your own instinct on this..maybe check out the board and see if it is "religious in nature"
to you.Good Luck! I've enjoyed your first issue and wish you every success in keeping more coming!

Someone can be religious about their anti-religion...

2008-01-18T05:08:00.000-08:00

Someone can be religious about their anti-religion position, providing fuel for the lie that "atheism is just another religion".

A zealot is a zealot regardless of what they are a zealot about. I have met people who bring StarTrek into everything in their lives, no less zealots and no less repulsive.

I very much enjoyed the works of Joseph Campbell for example, who discussed religions for their expression of human nature and spirit, without "bringing religion into it".

Trust yourself. If it is overtly religious to you, I fully expect it will be to others also. And if it looks ok, then it is. It's your magazine, and you are the editor.